While arguing about the usefulness of short sets in GS training on Irongarm I got an interesting recommendation from one of the posters from Rybinsk forum. It is the training progression that is based on reps rather than time. Just as timed template discussed in the Russian EDT it implies progressing from many short sets to few long ones. Rest interval recommended by the poster was strictly 1 minute. I guess you can play with it if you wish so. Here it is, reps times sets.
10 reps x 10 sets
12 x 8
16 x 6
20 x 5
25 x 4
30 x 3
50 x 2
? x 1 – competition or prikidka (tryout)
If on the average each level takes about two weeks to achieve, the program will last about 16 weeks or 4 months. Though I think for the average beginner it may take considerably longer.
The sessions must alternate between easy, medium and hard by adding or skipping snatches and/or assistance exercises. One must also follow some sort of periodisation. One way to do it is to build the number of sets in each level gradually. For example, achieving 10 sets of 10 reps is one microcycle. Next cycle starts with 3 sets of 12 reps, next – 5 sets, then 8 etc. Work out a system of alternating rep based sets with timed ones, as well as a way of controlling your pace.
Once you achieve the 100 reps with 16 kg in one set, take a break and restart the sequence with 18 kg bells.
Personal remark. Long timed sets are hard, and I cannot work at my maximum every workout, both physically and mentally. I get tired and lose interest. Yes, I am a whimpering pussy! However, I believe that I am not alone here, and long sets done too often are too grueling and unnecessary. Training sequences like the one above makes training easier. I also believe that it also lowers the risk of trauma. Arguments are welcome.
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Girevoy Sport info: methodology of training and sharing my own modest experience and observations.
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12 comments:
Eugene,
For sake of argument, what do you consider a long set?
Most of us who train with Valery, don't do 10 min sets all the time. We start off typically at 5 min for the Jerk, and 6 min on the snatch. We build from there, but 10 min sets are usually done more on test days.
When I was training for Hamburg, most of my work sets were 8 min and some were 6 min, albeit at a 25rpm pace.
It is grueling. Some days I don't want to do it. But, I believe the timed sets are where the real benefits are with this training.
Out of curiousity, what is the longest set you've done? What gave out on you when you had to set the bells down?
The other thing is that you can't forget the supplemental training. Heavy one arm Jerks will help your Jerks and snatches. If you need a mental break, I would work those. I would still be mindful of technique, but you can do them for reps and not time.
I did EDT for snatches in late 2004 and hit a wall at about 140 reps. After working for time (which was tough), I moved to 183 reps in 10 min. This was after 3 months. I think it has some value, but it would have to be under a coaches guidance and you still need some idea as to how long you will last in a comp.
CI
Eugene
Your blog is most helpfull!
Catherine, thanks for the comments and questions.
Long set for me is longer than 3 min, 5 min definitely falling into this category. The longest I've done is 5 min for jerks (delts and pecs gave up) and and 10 min for snatches, both with 16kg (nothing gave up but it was very hard).
Now, I think I should explain myself. Timed sets are very important. VERY. But I also think that taking a break and doing multiple short 10s also has value. I also think that very grueling sets should not be done too often, at least not every workout. Ryabchenko's system sort of addresses this principle: the number of reps is ridiculously low in the first session of the microcycle and then increase exponentially towards the end of the cycle.
No question, assistance stuff is very important. Heavy ORJs build very good base. Squats prepare for heavier bells and running builds general endurance.
I am not questioning your training methods. I just think that there are easier ways to achieve the same result as with the hard ones. Sergeev's method is one of the few testimonies to this opinion. If I am wrong - time will tell and I will be the first to admit it.
I am going for long sets today though :)
So, is your issue with the Jerk the rack? Can you reach your hips?
If not, can you reach it with a single bell?
Here is something to consider...
I couldn't go longer than 4 min with a pair of 16s in 2005. I gave up double jerks (women don't do them). In 2007, I started doing a lot of heavy one arm Jerk work. Timed and untimed. It built the flexibility I needed for the rack.
I started doing LCC&J with 2 bells. This was easier for me and I did 10 min the first time I tried because I could drop the bells out of the rack, but it also helped me build the endurance for the regular Jerk and what do you know, I was going 10 min with 2-16kg bells. Mind you, I didn't do a shit load of timed sets with 2-16kg bells. In fact, I probably did < 10 in a couple of months. I did heavy one arm Jerks with the 24kg (worked my way up to 50L/50R in 10 min). Without training now specifically, I could probably do 90+ in 10 min with the 16s. That's all from single arm Jerks.
I don't think of OAJ just as assistance, I actually recommend them to many folks prior to grabbing 2 bells. I'll have my students that I coach focus on one arm jerk for a while because it builds that needed flexibility.
I'm not saying sets of 10 have no value like I said on IGx. My fear would be that your technique is what needs work. Motor patterns with this stuff are important, and when you are new to a lift, you need mindful execution of that lift for every rep.
CI
Eugene,
Here is my training log from 2007. I found the point where I made 10 min Jerks for the first time in June of last year. One thing I will note, I started off the year with a lot of untimed heavy one arm Jerks. 2007 was the year I dedicated to getting better at the lifts. I ended the year in Miami with 221 in the 16kg snatch and 202 (single arm Jerks) for a 423 total just to give you an idea as to the progression.
Just as a reference. I like to go back and see what I was doing that got me to where I am now.
http://fullkontact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=105
The rack is definitely an issue for me that needs lots of practice. I can reach the hips, but need to work more on mobility and flexibility.
Interestingly, when I did 5 sets of 2 min jerks with 2 min rest, at some point (somewhere on the 3 rd set) the discomfort of the rack almost disappeared. These sets allowed to increase the volume while not exhausting the muscles, and the body sort of found the optimal position.
I totally agree with you on OAJ. They give a very good idea where the elbow should go. I am going to include more of them with 24 and 32in my training.
Anyway, thanks for the link to the training log, I will check it out. And thanks for the advise.
Eugene,
this looks like an interesting template. Have you run across any information on this style of GS training for the long cycle? Obviously the demands are greater so there would have to be some adjustments...just curious and I would really appreciate it if you could share any information you happen to come across.
Thanks,
Ericc
Eugene,
First off, I really enjoy your blog, the two posts on jerk mechanics in particular are pure gold!
For this one, I have a question: what sort of pace are you doing these shorter sets at? You mention strict one minute rest between sets, but how fast are you doing the sets of 10 (or whatever rep count you're at)? Do you pace them?
Could you combine, and build on both principles, such as:
10 reps at 5 reps per min. = 2 mins.
Rest = 1 min.
10 reps at 5 reps per min. = 2 min.
Rest = 1 min.
etc.
Thanks again!
Ericc, I ask around about LC training.
Tommy, you should alternate the tempo. Abviously, longer sets will be slower. Combining tempo and reps is probably also a good idea.
Gotcha, thanks Eugene!
This protocol is done for snatch, jerk and long cycle at the same time? How many sessions a week do you recommend? I am all for training 7 days a week :)
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